Our website is www.pattayabridge.com Club News Sheet – No. 306

Our blogsite is www.pattayabridge.wordpress.com

My home phone is 038 422924 and my mobile number is 083 6066880 21^st Sept 2008

It is best to use my home number to contact me unless I am at the bridge club.

My e-mail is terry@pattayabridge.com or pattayabridge@yahoo.com

My MSN messenger ID is tj_quested@hotmail.com

Mon 15^th 1^st Jeremy & Sally 61% 2^nd Hans V & Janne 60%

Wed 17^th 1^st Lewis & Terry 65% 2^nd Ole & Sigurd = Dave & Mike 56%

Fri 19^th 1^st Bob S & Hans V 71% 2^nd Lewis & Paul Q 59%

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Bidding Quiz Standard American bidding is assumed unless otherwise stated.

Hand A Hand B With Hand A partner opens 1♠, what do you bid?

♠ QJ9843 ♠ J74

♥ KJ9 ♥ J982 With Hand B you open 1♣ and partner bids 1♠. You bid 1NT

♦ J5 ♦ QJ and partner bids 2♥, what do you do. Warning! Although I

♣ AJ ♣ AKQ8 think this is trivial, everybody got it ‘wrong’ on Monday.

Hand C Hand D With Hand C partner opens 1♣ and you bid 1♠, partner bids

2♠, what do you bid?

♠ Q874 ♠ AK1052

♥ Q ♥ 85

♦ AQ7 ♦ A876 With Hand D you open 1♠ and partner splinters with 4♣,

♣ AQ986 ♣ 94 what do you bid?

Hand E Hand F With Hand E you open 1♣ in 4^th seat and partner bids 2NT,

what do you do?

♠ AJ4 ♠ Q865432

♥ J32 ♥ - With Hand F it’s love all, LHO opens 1♥ and RHO bids 2♥.

♦ AKJ ♦ KQJ54 (a) What do you bid? Suppose you choose 2♠ and LHO bids 4♥

♣ 10875 ♣ 4 (b) What do you do?

Hand G Hand H What do you open with Hand G?

♠ - ♠ KQ4

♥ AQJ104 ♥ A63 What do you open with Hand H?

♦ - ♦ K6

♣ KQJ98653 ♣ AJ1097

Hand J Hand K With Hands J and K LHO opens 1♦ and this is passed round to

you, what do you do?

♠ KJ1097 ♠ J98764

♥ J5 ♥ J76

♦ J1052 ♦ J10

♣ Q4 ♣ QJ

Bidding Sequence Quiz

L 1♣ pass 1♠ pass

1NT pass 2♥ Is 2♥ weak or invitational?

M 1♣ pass 1♥ pass

2♣ pass 3♥ Is 3♥ invitational or forcing?

N 1♣ pass 1♥ 2♦

pass pass 2♠ Is 2♠ forcing?

P 1♣ 1♦ pass 2NT How many points is 2NT?

The Club Championships

Here are the latest standings in the club competitions. The significant movement this week was Hans V moving into the top spot in the silver and bronze competitions. He needs just three more qualifying results and he’ll be right up there in the Gold Cup fight, where Bob P has just overtaken Ivy in 3^rd spot.

	Gold Cup = Best 30	Silver Plate = Best 10	Bronze Medal = Best 5
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10	1836.6 Dave Cutler 1815.6 Sally Watson 1782.6 Bob Pelletier 1782.5 Ivy Schlageter 1714.7 Jan v Koss	667.3 Hans Vikman 661.8 Dave Cutler 661.1 Sally Watson 661.1 Jeremy Watson 642.7 Ivy Schlageter 642.0 Lars Gustafsson 634.3 Derek & Gerard 634.4 Lewis Berg 628.6 Bob Pelletier 621.7 Janne Roos …	347.2 Hans Vikman 342.3 Dave Cutler 341.1 Jeremy Watson 341.1 Sally Watson 336.9 Lars Gustafsson 335.3 Ivy Schlageter 328.5 Derek & Gerard 327.7 Lewis Berg  327.4 Tomas Wikman 320.5 Bob Pelletier ...

Too High – part 1 Board 22 from Monday 15^th

A couple of pairs got carried away with their 6-5 fit and ended up too high on this deal.

Dealer: ♠ 6 Table A

East ♥ A106 West(A) North East(D) South

E-W vul ♦ K932 - - 1♠ pass

♣ KQ1075 4♣ (1) pass 4♦ (2) pass

5♣ pass 5♠ all pass

♠ QJ9843 N ♠ AK1052

♥ KJ9 W E ♥ 85 Table B

♦ J5 S ♦ A876 West(A) North East(D) South

♣ AJ ♣ 94 - - 1♠ pass

♠ 7 2♣ (1) pass 2♦ (3) pass

♥ Q7432 4♠ (4) all pass

♦ Q104

♣ 8632

Table A: (1) What did you bid with this West hand A in this week’s quiz? It’s difficult as the hand is too strong for a direct 4♠. This West decided upon 4♣ which most play as a splinter showing ♣ shortage.

(2) What did you bid with this East hand D in this week’s quiz?’ Mentioning the 2^nd suit here in a natural sense is totally wrong. Partner’s splinter has set ♠’s as trumps and 4♦ here is a cue bid, but with a totally minimal hand I would attempt to sign off in 4♠

Table B: (1) This West also realized that he had a problem. He eventually decided to bid 2♣ which is quite reasonable, 2♥ (where the values are) is probably better. It’s not usually a good idea to lie in a major (2♥ here promises 5 ♥’s) but there’s no problem on this occasion as the hand will always be played in ♠’s.

(3) This time bidding ♦’s is fine as it’s a weakish bid.

(4) West decided to settle for game. 2♥ (4^th suit forcing) is probably better – find out if partner has a ♥ honour and then show slam interest if he does.

And what happened? 5♠ was bid twice, -1 and -2. 4♠ was bid three times and made just the once. The bottom lines: -

- Sometimes there is no perfect bid, in this situation the only sensible solution is to play Jacoby 2NT and/or the Swiss convention.

Too High – part 2 Board 24 from Monday 15^th

One E-W pair went way overboard on this deal

Dealer: ♠ J102 Table A

West ♥ K63 West North East(C) South

Love all ♦ KJ5 1♣ (1) pass 1♠ pass

♣ KJ102 2♠ pass 4NT (2) pass

5♣ (3) pass 5NT (4) pass

♠ AK95 N ♠ Q874 6♣ (5) dbl 6♠ all pass

♥ AJ5 W E ♥ Q

♦ 1098 S ♦ AQ7 Table B

♣ 743 ♣ AQ986 West North East(C) South

♠ 63 1♣ (1) pass 1♠ pass

♥ 1098742 2♠ pass 4♠ (2) all pass

♦ 6432

♣ 5

Table A: (1) A light opener (totally flat), but it does have three quick tricks and a few intermediates.

(2) What did you bid with this East hand C in this week’s quiz? This jump to Blackwood is an overbid opposite a minimal opener

(3) 3 keycards

(4) Asking for kings!! I simply cannot comprehend this, was he really looking for the grand?

(5) None.

Table B: (1) This West also decided to open.

(2) But this East sensibly decided to bid the obvious 4♠.

And what happened? 6♠-1, 4♠+1 twice and 4♠=. Note that even with both minor suit kings onside the slam still went down

The bottom lines: -

- 16 points opposite a minimal opener is not usually enough for slam.

- There is no point in asking for kings unless you have a grand slam in mind.

Too High – part 3 Board 7 from Monday 15^th

Every single pair went (one or two) over the top on this deal.

Dealer: ♠ J74 Table A

South ♥ J982 West North(B) East South

Both vul ♦ QJ - - - pass

♣ AKQ8 pass 1♣ pass 1♠

pass 1NT pass 2♥

♠ 8 N ♠ AK65 pass 3♥ (1) pass 4♥ (2)

♥ A7 W E ♥ 105 all pass

♦ A1073 S ♦ K842

♣ 1097652 ♣ J43 Table B

♠ Q10932 West North(B) East South

♥ KQ643 - - - pass

♦ 965 pass 1♣ pass 1♠

♣ - pass 1NT pass 2♥

pass 3♥ (1) pass pass (3)

Table A: (1) What did you bid with this North hand B in this week’s quiz? This 3♥ bid was, I believe, found by everybody at the club. It is terrible! Partner has shown a weak hand with 9 or 10 cards in the majors. It’s true that there’s at least a 4-4 ♥ fit but look where the points are in the North hand! Partner has both majors and North has just two jacks in the suits. Obviously you should pass and pray that 2♥ makes (it does not!).

(2) With 5 ♥’s and a void I guess this is reasonable if partner really had a 3♥ bid.

Table B: (1) It seems that everybody found this raise.

(3) I was one of the ones who did not trust partner and I passed.

And what happened? 4♥*-3, 4♥-2, 4♥-1, 3♥-2 and 3♥=

The bottom lines: -

- Sequence L is weak, opener should only raise with a maximum, 4 (preferably 5) ♥’s and POINTS IN THE MAJOR SUITS.

- Note that North’s glorious ♣AKQ were 9 totally wasted points, which should have been pretty much predicted after South’s 2^nd bid.

Not Too High Board 3 from Friday 19^th

It seems that it’s not just me who evaluates hands according to shape and intermediates as well as points. I didn’t play on Friday but luckily Hans Vikman was North on this deal and was the only one to appreciate that Hand H was worth more than a 1NT opener.

Dealer: ♠ KQ4 Table A

South ♥ A63 West North(H) East South

E-W vul ♦ K6 - - - pass

♣ AJ1097 pass 1NT (1) all pass

♠ AJ1063 N ♠ 97 Table B

♥ J98 W E ♥ KQ4 West North(H) East South

♦ 10754 S ♦ QJ2 - - - pass

♣ 3 ♣ Q8654 pass 1♣ (1) pass 1♥ (2)

♠ 852 pass 2NT (3) pass 3NT (4)

♥ 10752 all pass

♦ A983

♣ K2

Table A: (1) What did you open with this North hand H in this week’s quiz? A balanced 17 count so 1NT is obvious – isn’t it? Well happily the North at table B agrees with me that it’s too good for a strong NT!

Table B: (1) This is the ‘proper’ answer to question H and is what I would most certainly open had I been playing – but Hans Vikman waved the flag for me when he opened 1♣ at the table. Now I know that many of you point count addicts will say ‘a balanced 17 count so open 1NT’. That statement is true, but is inapplicable to this hand. ♣AJ1097 is NOT 5 points – it’s more like 7! This hand is well worth a 1♣ opener followed by a 2NT rebid.

(2) It’s up to your partnership understanding if you respond 1♦ or 1♥ with this type of hand.

(3) 18-19, which is what this hand is worth.

(4) And South has an easy raise to game.

And what happened? Hans was the only player not to open 1NT, he made 3NT despite the adverse ♣ split for a well deserved top. Everybody else played in 1NT making various numbers of overtricks.

The bottom lines: -

- AJ1097 is not 5 points.

- Add on for intermediates and good 5-card suits.

- Note the importance of the ♣ intermediates on this deal. If North did not have the ♣109 then 3NT would not have made (and Hans would not have opened 1♣).

- I don’t know if Hans reads the news-sheets, but he obviously has the same philosophy as me about hand evaluation and this undoubtedly aided his 71% winning score.

So how much is AJ1097 really worth? Board 3 from Friday 19^th

On the previous page I made the statement that AJ1097 was not 5 points but more like 7. Is this just me being melodramatic or a fact?

Let’s consider the actual deal. Partner had ♣Kx which is undoubtedly 3 points. The ♣ suit easily netted 4 tricks (and would have been 5 had the Q, Qx or Qxx been onside). Anyway, 4 tricks is fine. Now to make 3NT you generally need 25 combined points, so that’s 25/9 = 2.8 points for each trick, agreed? The ♣AJ1097 netted three tricks and so was worth 3*2.8 = 8.3 points.

So my statement that the holding was worth about 7 points was 1.3 light on this occasion.

The bottom line: Upgrade a good 5-card suit with honours and intermediates.

Distributional Hands – part 1 Board 11 from Wednesday 15^th

As we have just proved, bridge bidding is much more about distribution than points, as these next two deals from Wednesday also illustrate.

Dealer: ♠ K107 Table A

South ♥ 10872 West North East(F) South

Love all ♦ 73 - - - 1♥

♣ AQ98 pass 2♥ 2♠ (1) 4♥

pass pass pass (2)

♠ 9 N ♠ Q865432

♥ QJ3 W E ♥ -

♦ A982 S ♦ KQJ54 Table B

♣ J10653 ♣ 4 West North East(F) South

♠ AJ - - - 1♥

♥ AK9654 pass 2♥ 2♠ (1) 4♥

♦ 106 pass pass 5♦ (2) dbl (3)

♣ K72

Table A: (1) What did you bid with this East hand F(a) in this week’s quiz? It’s totally unsuitable for any sort of two-suited overcall and I would never consider a Michaels 3♥. This 2♠ overcall seems clear to me.

(2) What did you bid with this East hand F(b) in this week’s quiz? I know it’s up a level if partner prefers ♠’s but I would (did) bid 5♦.

Table B: (2) This is my bid – the hand has great playing strength so show your suits.

(3) Whether you choose to double or not depends upon how much respect you have for your opponents?

And what happened? 5♦* made easily to take the E-W top and would have got a near top even if it had gone one or two down. Two South’s were left to play peacefully in 4♥ making. One got pushed up to 5♥ and made that for the N-S top. One East bid 4♠-1.

The bottom lines: -

- If you have 12 cards in two suits, then bid both of the suits.

Distributional hands – part 2 Board 25 from Wednesday 17^th

There was a different result at every table on this board

Dealer: ♠ - Table A

North ♥ AQJ104 West North(G) East South

E-W vul ♦ - - 2♦ (1) pass 2♥ (2)

♣ KQJ98653 2♠ (3) 3♣ (4) 3♠ pass

4♠ 5♣ (5) 5♠ dbl

♠ KQJ987 N ♠ A1042 pass 6♣ (6) all pass

♥ 3 W E ♥ 982

♦ KQ1084 S ♦ A63 Table B

♣ A ♣ 1042 West North(G) East South

♠ 763 - 1♣ (1) pass 1♥ (7)

♥ K765 1♠ (8) 6♥ (9) pass pass

♦ J9752 pass (10)

♣ 7

Table A: (1) What did you open with this North hand G in this week’s quiz? This pair play Benjamin and 2♦ is their strongest bid, game forcing. I much prefer my partner’s opening at table B.

(2) Relay.

(3) West is in a similar position to East on the previous deal. He has a huge two-suiter and so keeps the bidding low.

(4) Natural (and game forcing).

(5) With a two-loser hand, 5♥ may be better, but North decided to play it safe.

(6) There’s no room to mention the ♥’s now of course.

Table B: (1) I much prefer this 1♣ opening in answer to question G. 2♣ (or 2♦ Benjamin) is not always best with two suiters – even if 11 playing tricks! Open 2♣/♦ and there is bound to be huge interference and you won’t have a chance to bid both your suits. With two voids (one of them ♠’s) there is zero chance of 1♣ being passed out.

(7) This pair play a short ♣ and this particular South (me) will hardly ever pass 1♣ if he has ♣ shortage. We also play Walsh and so with a weak hand South bids the major directly rather than bidding the ♦ suit. It worked very well here!

(8) West, with his huge hand, again wants to keep the bidding low.

(9) But North does not! Don’t mess about with a distributional hand when you don’t have the ♠ suit.

(10) It’s not clear that West should bid 6♠.

And what happened? 6♥ made exactly but was pipped when 6♣ got doubled at another table. 6♣ making scored an average. 6♠ making was the E-W top and one North had to sacrifice in 7♣-1.

The bottom lines: -

- With two suiters it’s often best not to open with a game forcing two bid – you may not have enough room to show both of your suits.

Balancing?

If you have around 6-7 points, LHO opens and this is passed to you in 4^th seat, then you have to decide whether to balance or pass.

Balancing with the ♠ suit – part 1 Board 21 from Monday 15^th

Dealer: ♠ KJ1097

North ♥ J5 West North(J) East South

N-S vul ♦ J1052 - pass 1♦ pass

♣ Q4 pass (1) pass (2)

♠ Q82 N ♠ 3 (1) 1NT (or 2♦) is obvious.

♥ A107 W E ♥ KQ86 (2) What did you bid with this North hand J in

♦ 9843 S ♦ AKQ76 this week’s quiz? With 8 points I think it’s

♣ 872 ♣ AJ3 very clear to balance with a 1♠ bid. It’s true

♠ A754 that you have reasonable ♦’s but partner is

♥ 9432 likely to have shortage.

♦ -

♣ K10965 And what happened? 1♦ made +1, N-S can make 4♠.

Balancing with the ♠ suit – part 2 Board 14 from Friday 19^th

Dealer: ♠ J98764 West North(K) East South

East ♥ J76 - - 1♦ pass

Love all ♦ J10 pass pass (1)

♣ QJ

(1) What did you bid with this North hand K in

♠ Q N ♠ 1062 this week’s quiz? There’s not so many points

♥ 984 W E ♥ AQ52 this time but I still think it’s best to balance

♦ K85 S ♦ AQ94 with a 1♠ bid, especially holding a 6-card suit.

♣ 1098764 ♣ A3

♠ AK5

♥ K103

♦ 7632 And what happened? 1♦ made exactly, N-S can make 3♠.

♣ K52 .

The bottom lines (for both boards): -

- Holding the ♠ suit I think it’s generally best to bid in the balancing seat unless you have length & strength in the suit opened and no other good suit.

- You only need about 7+ points to balance.

Dave’s Column Here is this week’s Dave input involving the play of the hand.

North South You are North, declarer in 4♥ after opening 1♥ in 4^th seat.

♠ 32 ♠ AQ106 East leads the ♣10 which West wins with the ♣A and

♥ AKQ987 ♥ 10432 switches to a low ♦. Which ♦ do you play or is it just

♦ KJ ♦ 432 a guess?

♣ 532 ♣ KQ

Dave’s Column answer Board 326 from Wednesday 17^th

Dealer: ♠ 32 West North East South

East ♥ AKQ987 - - pass pass

Both vul ♦ KJ pass 1♥ pass 3♥

♣ 532 pass 4♥ all pass

♠ K74 N ♠ J985 It’s not a guess.

♥ 65 W E ♥ J Forget about the ♦’s for a moment and look

♦ Q1086 S ♦ A975 at the whole hand. You have lost a ♣ and you

♣ AJ64 ♣ 10987 could lose a ♠ and two ♦’s if everything goes

♠ AQ106 wrong. In fact if the ♦AQ are with East. you

♥ 10432 won’t make the hand if the ♠K is also wrong

♦ 432 but there’s nothing you can do in that case.

♣ KQ

Consider the location of the ♠K for a moment. If East has that card the contract is assured regardless of how you play the ♦’s. Therefore assume that West has the ♠K.

Assuming West has the ♠K makes it easier to work out the ♦ position. If West has the ♠K in addition to his ♣A,J (known) then he is very unlikely to have the ♦A as well. After all, he was in 3^rd seat and would have opened with 12 points. So East must have the ♦A and so you play the ♦J.

And what happened at the Pattaya Bridge Club? 4♥= four times, 3♥= once.

Dave’s 2^nd Column Here is Dave’s second input involving the play of the hand.

West East You are West, declarer in 3NT after partner opened 1♣ in 4^th

♠ K102 ♠ AJ4 seat. North leads the ♦10, you win with the ♦K in dummy

♥ K96 ♥ J32 with South playing a discouraging ♦2. At trick two you lead

♦ Q65 ♦ AKJ a ♣ to the ♣Q which wins. You play a 2^nd ♣ which South wins

♣ QJ92 ♣ 10875 with the ♣K, North playing high-low.

South returns a 2^nd ♦ which you win in dummy and play a 3^rd ♣ to South’s ♣A, North discarding the ♥7. South continues with a 3^rd ♦, all following and leaving North with the remaining ♦.

You lead a 4^th round of ♣’s ending in Dummy and North discards a lower ♥ and South a low ♠. How do you continue?

Dave’s 2^nd Column answer Board 27 from Wednesday 17^th

Dealer: ♠ Q98 West North East(E) South

South ♥ Q752 - - - pass

Love all ♦ 10987 pass pass 1♣ pass

♣ 43 2NT (1) pass 3NT (2) all pass

♠ K102 N ♠ AJ4 This is the bidding from the book and also

♥ K96 W E ♥ J32 by our opponents at our table.

♦ Q65 S ♦ AKJ

♣ QJ92 ♣ 10875 (1) Very borderline with this 3334 shape.

♠ 7653 (2) What did you bid with this East hand E

♥ A108 in this week’s quiz? Partner has passed and

♦ 432 surely has just 11 and this hand is only

♣ AK6 worth 13 because of the 3334 shape.

With no points in the only ‘long’ suit and

8 points concentrated in a 3-card suit, I

would pass.

This is the position having just won the ♣10

♠ Q98 in dummy.

♥ Q5 You have 2 ♣ tricks, 3 ♦’s and two sure ♠

♦ 9 tricks to come for a total of seven. Even if you

♣ - guess ♠’s correctly you have only 8 tricks.

Therefore you must find the ♥A in the South

♠ K102 N ♠ AJ4 hand to make the contract.

♥ K96 W E ♥ J32 Lead a ♥ to the ♥K, and assuming it holds,

♦ - S ♦ - play North for the ♠Q. Why?

♣ - ♣ - Because South has already turned up with the

♠ 765 ♣AK and the ♥A. If he also had the ♠Q he

♥ A108 would have opened the bidding.

♦ If North turns up with the ♥A there was no way

♣ to make the hand.

And what happened at the Pattaya Bridge Club? 3NT=, 3NT-1, 1NT+1 and 1NT=.

Terry’s Comment: Not only do you need to play very well, but you need to be extremely lucky with the lay of the cards to make 3NT on this deal – it’s about a 25% shot. But there are a combined 25 points so it should be fairly easy? Why not?

Because of the dreaded 4333 type shape. Both players should knock off a point. West’s 2NT is dubious (indeed, one player did heed my continual warnings in the news-sheets and responded just 1NT) but East’s raise to three with this flat hand with the only 4-card suit headed by the ♣10 is even more so, especially opposite a passed hand (so probably only 11).

The bottom line: -

- Deduct a point for the dreaded 4333 type shape. This applies to trump and no-trump contracts at any level.

Bidding Quiz Answers

Hand A: I’m not sure! This is not an easy one unless you play Jacoby 2NT or Swiss. I bid 2♣ at the table with an unfamiliar partner who plays a basic system, 2♥ may be better. One player chose 4♣ which is a splinter (I don’t like this). You cannot support ♠’s directly as 3♠ is not forcing and 4♠ is a weak bid. If you play Jacoby 2NT then that looks right.

Hand B: Pass. Partner’s bid is weak, asking you to pass or correct. You know that there is a 4-4 (or 5-4) ♥ fit but partner is not inviting and with just two points in partner’s suits a raise to 3♥ (as I believe everybody did) is absolutely terrible. The ♣AKQ may be totally worthless (they were). Move those points into the major suits and a raise would be reasonable.

Hand C: 4♠, simple I know, but one player did go looking for a grand slam.

Hand D: 4♠. 4♦ would be a cue bid looking for slam but with this minimum hand I would attempt to sign off.

Hand E: Pass. Partner is a passed hand and so probably has 11 points. 14 points is usually enough, but this hand is not worth 14 points – deduct a point for the 3334 shape and also the ♦AKJ in a three card suit are not pulling their weight. It’s a really terrible ‘14’ points.

Hand F: (a) 2♠. The hand is unsuitable for something like Michaels. With a 7-card major, bid it! I don’t like a 3♠ pre-empt as I hope to get my ♦’s in later.

(b) 5♦. This is surely better than repeating the ♠’s. I would never dream of passing. They say 6-5 come alive, so you can leap about with 7-5.

Hand G: 1♣. This hand has 11 playing tricks but I still would not open a strong 2♣/♦. With a two-suiter like this it’s best to bid it naturally or else you probably won’t get a chance to bid both suits. So open 1♣ and leap off to a high number of ♥’s next go; and there will be a next go when you are void in ♠’s.

Hand H: 1♣. This hand has 17 HCP’s and is balanced, but it’s far too good for 1NT – that

♣ AJ1097 is worth far more than 5 points (more like 7). So open 1♣ and rebid 2NT.

Hand J: 1♠, partner has values and you have the ♠ suit. Very clear.

Hand K: 1♠, partner has values and you have the ♠ suit. Perhaps not so clear but clear to me.

Bidding Sequence Quiz Answers

L 1♣ pass 1♠ pass 2♥ is weak, opener should only raise with an

1NT pass 2♥ exceptional hand in support of ♥’s (and ♠’s).

M 1♣ pass 1♥ pass

2♣ pass 3♥ 3♥ is invitational.

N 1♣ pass 1♥ 2♦

pass pass 2♠ 2♠ is a forcing reverse.

P 1♣ 1♦ pass 2NT 2NT is around 13-14, depending upon how light partner’s overcalls generally are.